Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V13_5/V13_503.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #503

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 503

Today's Topics:
  Re: Saturn V and Design Reuse: Saturn VI? (RBB: Real Big Booster)
             Re: Saturn V vs. ALS
     Re: Galileo Update On CNN  atmosphere probe question
               Re: Hypersonic Transport
              Terraforming Venus
                  IT'S OVER
             Hypersonic Transport
        International Civil Space Agency by 93
                Re: GIF viewer
               Re: Terraforming Venus?

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
  should be sent to [e-mail], or, if urgent, to
             [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 2 May 91 18:34:24 GMT
From: mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.ecn.purdue.edu![e-mail]  (/dev/null)
Subject: Re: Saturn V and Design Reuse: Saturn VI? (RBB: Real Big Booster)

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (/dev/null) writes:
> >Legally, people are trying to reduce emissions on cars.  On rockets
> >there are no restrictions.  Maybe start putting restrictions on
> >emissions of launchers?
>

> Again, why are launchers such a special case?  Their contribution to total
> emissions is insignificant; why are we proposing restrictions on them?  If
> we must, why are we proposing restrictions on hydrocarbon-fueled launchers,
> which are among the cleanest of the lot?  (The shuttle, for example, is
> very dirty by comparison; the hydrogen-fueled SSMEs don't make up for those
> filthy SRBs.)

Just to be devil's advocate:  Then why not limit the emissions on SRBs.
(Or outlaw?)  Just because its out there, doesn't make it 'right.'

I personally don't care much about this issue because its silly to me.
To a lot of people, however, it is serious.

>
> >After all, they do launch in the wetlands AND spew half burnt
> >hydrocarbons and other exhaust all over.
>
> For a few seconds right at the start.

Yes, for just a few seconds.  Right now it might seem stupid when compared
with 'whats out there,'  but legislators may (rightly or wrongly - I don't
know) try to 'zero out' or close to zero out emissions of this kind.

Pressure may come to bear on the fact that in those few seconds after
ignition, there are X tons of hydrocarbons dumped into the wetlands.

It might do harm, it might not, who knows?  I don't.


--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Society of Philosophers, Luminaries,           | Brent L. Irvine       |
| and Other Professional Thinking People.....   | Only my own ramblings |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 2 May 91 21:24:24 GMT
From: pasteur!agate!bionet!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!samsung!rex!rouge![e-mail]  (Fraering Philip)
Subject: Re: Saturn V vs. ALS

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Nick Szabo) writes:

>At this point, sharing probably only makes sense
>for some GEO-bound satellites and microsatellites systems with multiple
>spacecraft per plane (eg Iridium).

Or for a 'probe bus' hauling probes to earth escape velocity.

Of course, that would simply give another excuse to make
launch failures a order of magnitude more catastrophic than
they are today. I mean, when the seven or eight satellites
sharing the 150,000 lb. booster are destroyed, it could
really damage the whole industry.


--
Phil Fraering
[e-mail]
Joke going around: "How many country music singers does it take to
change a light bulb? Four. One to change the bulb, and three to sing
about the old one."

------------------------------

Date: 3 May 91 20:37:21 GMT
From: att!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com![e-mail]  (robert.f.casey)
Subject: Re: Galileo Update On CNN  atmosphere probe question


I saw part of this news report, too.  There was mention that if they can't
get the antenna fixed, there will be no nice pictures.  But they can still
do the atmosphere probe.  Are there cameras on this probe (didn't think so)?
Data rate on the probe must be fairly low, then, if the antenna problem
won't get in the way.  Will NASA "hear" the atmosphere probe directly from
Jupiter without being relayed thru Galileo?
===========================================================================
Question: Do you have to be a rocket scientist to design a rocket?    :-)

------------------------------

Date: 1 May 91 15:40:55 GMT
From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Hypersonic Transport

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Lawrence Curcio) writes:
>lecturer who mentions hypersonic transport. We are told that the supersonic
>phase is to be skipped altogether, and the next stage  of travel is
>via space. No two points on the globe more than a couple of hours away,
>and all that...  ...have I been treated to Science Fiction Theater?

Pretty much so.  Both the airlines and the aircraft manufacturers have
concluded that hypersonic speeds do not appear to be worthwhile at present.
Not that the higher speed would not be useful, but the problems and costs
are out of proportion to the benefits.  Problems include things like new
fuel storage systems, radically revamped air-traffic control, special
gate facilities for still-hot aircraft, etc., quite apart from the
costs of the aircraft itself.  There is active research on supersonics,
up to circa Mach 4, but nobody is taking hypersonic or ballistic airliners
very seriously right now.
--
And the bean-counter replied,           | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
"beans are more important".             |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

------------------------------

Date: 1 May 91 17:38:13 GMT
From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.ecn.purdue.edu![e-mail]  (/dev/null)
Subject: Terraforming Venus


I think Venus might be a bit easier to Terraform than Mars.  With Mars, you
have to find a way to add air pressure, with Venus, you have to find a way to decrease it (never minding the fact that both are poisonous right now ... :) )

This could be an opportunity to try out bio-technology.  Send a group of
microbes that "eat" sulphur in sulphuric acid, cleaning the air.

I know that there are lots of toxins other than H2SO4, but similar approaches
could be used.

Mars may be much more tough than Venus.


--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Society of Philosophers, Luminaries,           | Brent L. Irvine       |
| and Other Professional Thinking People.....   | Only my own ramblings |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date:         Thu, 02 May 91 08:14:17 EDT
From: "Charles J. Divine" <[e-mail]>

Title:  Political action

The situation:  The Department of Energy is getting interested in space.
They have some technologies (e.g., space nuclear power) that look important
to our future in space.  They also have a need of their own:  military appro-
priations are declining with the demise of the cold war.  Much DOE work
(e.g., nuclear weapons) is military related.  Hence, to keep their people
employed and their budget up, they are looking for new work.  This, BTW,
was all reported in the Washington Post a few days ago.  So this alert, while
perhaps surprising to some in the space community, will not be to those
living within the Beltway.  Currently the Energy and Water Development
subcommittee (they oversee DOE) of the House is considering the DOE budget
for next year.

The space activist phone tree is asking people to contact committee members
by the close of business Tuesday, May 7th and support full funding for the
Space Exploration Initiative (SEI) in DOE's budget.  We ask every one in the
country to contact the chair of the committee.  For people who have
representives on the committee from their state, we are them to contact those
people as well.

The committee consists of:          Phone extension (all numbers begin (202)225)

Tom Bevill, Alabama -- Chair        4876
Vic Fazio, California               5716
Lindsay Thomas, Georgia             5831
Jim Chapman, Texas                  3035
Bernard Dwyer, New Jersey           6301
John Myers, Indiana                 5805
Carl Pursell, Michigan              4401
Dean Gallo, New Jersey              5034

Thanks for your help.

------------------------------

Date: 04 MAY 91 19:54:10 CDT
From: MICHAEL DAVID WARREN <[e-mail]>
Subject: IT'S OVER

STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION WILL BE CANCELLED AFTER THE 1991-92
SEASON. IT IS OFFICIAL FROM THE PRODUCERS OF THE SHOW.
I AM SO GLAD, THAT HAS TO GO DOWN IN THE ANNALS OF HISTORY
AS ONE OF THE WORST RATED SHOWS OF ALL TIME
NEXT TO THE 1988 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION.
GOODBYE STTNG, YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED

MICHAEL DAVID WARREN <[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: 1 May 91 01:40:05 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Lawrence Curcio)
Subject: Hypersonic Transport

I'm a grad student at a policy school, and I don't read this group regularly
so forgive me if this is old stuff. Anyway, occasionally we get a guest
lecturer who mentions hypersonic transport. We are told that the supersonic
phase is to be skipped altogether, and the next stage  of travel is
via space. No two points on the globe more than a couple of hours away,
and all that. The last person, a prof from UNC, asserted that this was to
be a spinoff of shuttle technology.

Now I don't want to be a wet blanket or anything, but it seems to me that
the shuttle is an example of a technology that has grown well past its
practical scale. So what's the scoop, folks? Is this stuff on the horizon
or have I been treated to Science Fiction Theater?

Thanks,
-Larry C.

------------------------------

Date: 1 May 91 05:26:09 GMT
From: vax5.cit.cornell.edu![e-mail]
Subject: International Civil Space Agency by 93

**************************************************************************************

           AN ITERNATIONAL ( MULTINATIONAL ) CIVIL SPACE AGENCY BY 1993

                           An Idea Whose Time Has Come!

      UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, INC. International Dispatch:  April 30th 1991

*********************************************************************************

Organization back ground information:

* - Organization was founded in 1986 Virginia Beach, VA. ( USA )

* - Organization was Incorporated in 1990 as a Not-For-Profit Corporation in
    Ithaca, N.Y. ( USA )

* - Organizations purpose and mission is to create and set up an International
    Civil Space Agency by 1993.

* - Organizational activities sence 1989:

    * Application to the United Nations for NGO status ( October 1989 )

    * Low leval contact with Embassies of Countries with major activities in
      space exploration, research, and utilization. ( starting October 1989 )
      ( All responces were positive and supportive to some degree )

    * Contact with Embassies was discontinued in 1990 as a resault of the IRAQI
      conflict in order to avoid misunderstandings from US government, but
      contact will resume as of May 1991.

    * Lecture given by Organizations founder at Cornell University sponcered by
      the Cornell Hong Kong Students Group. ( November 1989 )

    * Meeting with President Frank H.T. Rhoads of Cornell University (Oct 1991)

    * Meetings with other administrators at Cornell as a resault of the meeting
      with Presedent Rhoads. ( October & September 1989 )

    * Organization begins to produce and cablecast a 15 to 30 minute nightly
      NewsCast ( Federation Update ) dealing with news specificly related with
      space exploration, science and technology, from a international
      perspective. ( 10 Nations space agencies cooperated by sending
      information and video materials to be used on the programing ) The
      NewsCasts were also used as a media vehicle from to inform and educate the
      general public about the USF's activities to form an international space
      agency. ( October 1989 programing began )

    * Organization exspands its cablecasting to include a new program which
      was intended to provide educational T.V. programing on a weekly basis.
      The show ( New Horizons ) was 30 min or an hour in length and alternated
      between talk show format, with guests form science and technology fields,
      and documentary format provided from outside sources. ( November 1989 )

    * Organization is presently sending letters to all US Congressman and
      Senators requesting thier support for this endeavor. ( April 1991 )

    * Organization is now in a fund raising campain to raise 2 million dollars
      in the next 6 to 8 months. ( March 1991 )

    * Organization granted computer accounts at Cornell University on the
      Cornell A  and  VAX5 operating systems under the electronic address USF.
       ( April 1991 )  These are the full electornic mail address's for the USF:

                     1) BITNET -       USF@CRNLVAX5

                     2) BITNET -       USF@CORNELLA

                     3) INTERNET -     [e-mail]

                     4) VAX -          [e-mail]

* Due to the very large amount of replys, we ask that all responces be made to
  the below address in writing. The USF will be making regular updates and
  notices in this section. Reply's by E-Mail are welcome but because our
  personel resources are limited at present all E-Mail responces may not be
  directly replied to by us, although we will make an effort to include reply's
  to simular questions by large numbers of members of this news net in our
  regular updates in this section.

* For further information about this organization and its present activities to
  create an International Space Agency by 1993. Send a Donation of $5.00 in the
  form of a personal check or cashies check only, made out to:
   UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, INC., and send it to the following address:

                                                UNITED SPACE FEDERATION, Inc.
                                                 International Headquarters
                                                        P.O. Box 4722
                                                 Ithaca, New York 14852-4722
                                               In the United States of America

                                Thank You for your time and support, Godspeed!

                                                   Sincerely,
                                                   Rick R. Dobson
                                                   Founder and
                                                   Executive Director
                                                   United Space Federation,Inc.

------------------------------

Date: 2 May 91 03:55:42 GMT
From: mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu![e-mail]  (Eddie McCreary)
Subject: Re: GIF viewer

In article <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> writes:
>Does anyone know where I can get a GIF viewer for a MAC, IBM, and/or UNIX works
>tation.  Information on any of these computer formates would be appreciated.
>
>                                           Glenn Szydlowski

Check in the archives at wuarchive.wustl.edu under /mirrors/msdos/gif.
The best one is probably cshow which is put out by Compuserve, the people
who developed the GIF standard.  They may have viewers for the other
machines in other directories, it's enormous.


--
Eddie McCreary            |In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
[e-mail], Internet|In the midst of his laughter and glee,
EMcCreary@UHOU, BITNET    |He had softly and suddenly vanished away--
University of Houston     |For the Snark _was_ a Boojum you see.

------------------------------

Date: 2 May 91 17:37:05 GMT
From: wuarchive!rex!rouge![e-mail]  (Fraering Philip)
Subject: Re: Terraforming Venus?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jon Monsarrat x6227) writes:

>Wait, do Jupiter's moons (like Ganymede) have enough gravity
>to support an atmosphere even if supplied with impacted comets?

Well, they have an ice surface already, do they need the comets?

After all, everyone says they'd supply Venus with water from
the Jovian satellites.

And Ganymede has the same diameter as Mars. I don't have the surface
gravity on hand.

--
Phil Fraering
[e-mail]
Joke going around: "How many country music singers does it take to
change a light bulb? Four. One to change the bulb, and three to sing
about the old one."

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #503
*******************